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Off-road (in)capability. Looking for advice

9K views 63 replies 26 participants last post by  wingstrom 
#1 ·
New '16 650 owner here. First a little about myself. I like sunsets, campfires oops....wrong site. Ok, I've been riding both street and dirt for the better part of 40 years. I have a Goldwing and a Yamaha Raider 1900. Most of my riding is with my wife on the back seat. We enjoy getting away and I frequently pass dirt roads that I am unable to explore on my current bikes. I've been wanting a more nimble bike capable of accessing some of the more out obscure destinations.
Enter my DL650. I bought the base model, planning to add my own bags for camping/touring. On the road I've been super happy so far (only about 250 miles). Yesterday I decided to take a quick jaunt into the desert behind my house. On hard packed dirt roads it seems capable enough and I think it will be ok with my wife on back. As soon as the road got slightly narrow with a few rocks tossed in, I was very glad I was riding solo. Once the road turned to sand I was out of luck. This bike is really a handful. As the sandy section got longer and deeper I soon realized I needed to cut my losses and turn around. That was a project that ended up with me having to pick my new baby up out of the sand. There was no damage except to my pride.
I have the stock tires. My questions are, "will a set of dual sport tires help significantly?". Do you actually use your 650 off-road? What tires provide the best mix of on/off road ability? Do any of you ride off-road with a passenger?
I realize these questions should have been researched prior to my purchase but it's too late for that.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
I have the stock tires. My questions are, "will a set of dual sport tires help significantly?". Do you actually use your 650 off-road? What tires provide the best mix of on/off road ability? Do any of you ride off-road with a passenger?
I realize these questions should have been researched prior to my purchase but it's too late for that.

riding the right bike in deep sand/deep gravel/mud is fun but the vstrom is much too heavy for those conditions (at least for us mortals) and adding a passenger just adds weight and makes things worse. you can still get out and enjoy the outback but need to be cautious and recognize your and the bikes limits and turn around if things ahead start to look iffy. some experience with a small dual sport is a plus.
 
#4 ·
you can still get out and enjoy the outback but need to be cautious and recognize your and the bikes limits and turn around if things ahead start to look iffy. some experience with a small dual sport is a plus.
Thanks. I have plenty of seat time on various bikes, old XR 500, XR250 big two strokes etc.
I'm hoping different tires will help. I don't expect it to handle like a motocross bike but I would like a bit more control in loose conditions.



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G
#3 ·
Hard to beat the Shinko 705's. I have been thinking of trying Bstone T30's for more sportbike type riding but keep going back to the 705's.

The old Wee2 isn't great at one thing but does everything pretty well.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Better tires will make a world of difference off the pavement.
I'm running a Mitas E-07 on rear and Shinko 804 up front and love the combination. This is my first set of tires after stock setup and installed at 6500 miles, at 8400 miles now.
I'm on a 1000, but can imagine a similar setup would be great on the 650. These tires hold wet and dry pavement amazingly well.



 
#14 ·
The K60 Scouts by Heidenau are a good 50/50 tire as well. I have them on my V2 and they make the dirt and gravel much more enjoyable.

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#15 ·
I also believe that tyres make little to no difference in sand, they will help in dirt but in sand any tyre will get traction.

The key to ridding a Strom in sand is you can't back off the power.

When you drop off the throttle the front gets heavy and you will struggle.

Standing on the pegs so the bike can move around under you is hard to do two up but it will help big time.

A steering damper will help keep things going straight ahead in the sand but being a heavy bike you are up for a fight.

My tip is first get fit, then practice practice practice, sand or dirt it all helps.
 
#17 ·
Thanks for all the feedback on different tires. You have suggested options that I had never heard of.

I still haven't seen anybody that admits to carrying a passenger off-road. I suspect it will be limited to dirt/gravel roads.

On another note, ABS brakes take some getting used to in the dirt[emoji849]


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#18 ·
I've 2-up ridden offroad and on light trails with my wife, and even my daughter has done some exploring with me. It can be done, but it's not wise until you're comfortable on the dirt, and more importantly confident in a Strom in the dirt...which are two different skill sets. Also, your passenger should be well used to pillion, geared up for it, and comfortable with the idea of falling over (let the bike go, rather than cling to the pilot or bike).

Tires help, but if your dirt skills have begun on a 500+lb bike you're afraid to drop, you're in the deep water with no swimmies trying to learn how to stay afloat. It's a terrible place to start.

Get a dirt bike or 250lb dual sport, take a good dirt class or build your skills on something much more forgiving. Skills translate upwards much faster.
 
#19 ·
I've 2-up ridden offroad and on light trails with my wife, and even my daughter has done some exploring with me. It can be done, but it's not wise until you're comfortable on the dirt, and more importantly confident in a Strom in the dirt...which are two different skill sets. Also, your passenger should be well used to pillion


Thanks. I'm very comfortable in the dirt just trying to adjust to the strom in the dirt. My wife has logged many miles with on the pavement but does not have the dirt experience I have.


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#26 ·
The DL is fine on anything that resembles a road. Tires and suspension make a big difference but I wouldn't ride 2-up on anything but really good dirt roads no matter what the bike was.

Sand is a lot more pleasant with a steering damper and I've never found deep mud a problem, well at least the mud around here. The bitch is so heavy she sinks, gets grip and I can just chug through. That's a lot better than tossing your DR 650 over a fence when you wind it up to get through and do suddenly get grip ;).

The ABS is FINE on sketchy stuff, just take it slowly - it's NOT a light weight dirt bike, you have to ride it differently. Going from my K6 with no ABS to my L2 with I suddenly found I'd gone from wishing I had a trials bike to being damned glad I had a DL with ABS on nasty downhills. It's not the worlds best offroad bike, but provided all you are trying to do is get through it's surprisingly capable - and it's a LOT better on the seal than any dirt bike.
 
#27 ·
I can honestly say that the dl650 is as capable off road as any of the other big bikes. You can ride through sand, but it's a true handful in the deep stuff.

On Monday a buddy on his 05 dl650 and I did the 100 mile White Rim trail in Canyon land Natl Park/Moab. This trail is very technical and difficult in many places.

I have 50/50 tires, he had a 50/50 rear, but only a 20/80 front. He is a better off road rider than me and he had a much harder time with the front end, but managed it. A 50/50 tire does make a huge difference in the dirt and a moderate difference in the sand.

We did 40 degree climbs and declines on dirt, rock, and bolders and the bikes took it all. I have a new respect for my bike now and know that if my skill level is there, the bike can handle whatever I throw at it.

So, put some 50/50 tires on that thing and get off the pavement!
 
#30 ·
Getting back to tyres a good choice can make a big difference to tracking in the rough stuff. I first tried Metzeler Karoo 3's which were heaps better but the rear especially wore too fast and now E-07's which are as good in the dirt, not as grippy on seal but last heaps longer. Both IMO are heaps more competent and confidence inspiring than the OEM Bridgestones.
For me, and contrary to the opinions of some, tyre selection is the most effective and important upgrade if you are heading for rough unsealed roads and tracks.
 
#34 ·
I bet you two could both give some good clinics for us noobs and old farts that never rode dirt in our younger days...

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#35 ·
Just know the limitations of the bike. It's not a dirt bike and never will be, it doesn't have enough clearance and certainly doesn't have enough suspension. Two up I'd limit it to forest service roads. One up two track and try to stay out of the mud. I suck at sand on this bike and generally resort to using my legs as outriggers and powering though that way. Still beats walking. I've been able to get up on the pegs and ride sand on the bike but it takes some speed and unless I know the area I'm not willing to get that kind of speed and risk 6 to 800 lbs of rider and bike flying though the air. But that's just me and my self preservation instincts lol. As long as you accept the limitations of the bike in off pavement situations I think You'll be fine.









 
#36 ·
Just know the limitations of the bike. It's not a dirt bike and never will be, it doesn't have enough clearance and certainly doesn't have enough suspension. Two up I'd limit it to forest service roads. One up two track and try to stay out of the mud. I suck at sand on this bike and generally resort to using my legs as outriggers and powering though that way. Still beats walking. I've been able to get up on the pegs and ride sand on the bike but it takes some speed and unless I know the area I'm not willing to get that kind of speed and risk 6 to 800 lbs of rider and bike flying though the air. But that's just me and my self preservation instincts lol. As long as you accept the limitations of the bike in off pavement situations I think You'll be fine.
Great pics!

I also struggled pretty bad in the sand when I took the Adventure Riders International course a few months ago. I was just starting to "get" the whole clutch control thing when one of the guys in my class fell under his R1200GS and broke his ankle, effectively ending our course. The guys on the more modern bikes (2 tenere's and the R1200Gs) fared much better with their traction control even though the traction control made the forest roads more difficult. They all said it made a huge difference on the sand. I tried to stay upright on the pegs and not sit down and outrigger my legs, but I fell almost every time through the deep sand.

That said, the bike picked right up and keep driving, so it was all operator error. I'm sure with more time in the sand I would have figured it out, but certainly not as user friendly as the more modern ETC bikes.
 
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#45 ·
I agree that airing down has big advantages, but we have cast wheels(even the XT spokes are cast aluminium) so for Moab(ROCKS>>>BIG ROCKS) I left the front art 32.5. A little squirrely in the deep sand, but overall they were fairly predictable. Sand ahead....gear down, get R's up and maintain a steady brisk pace until I hit back on firm ground. If I had to turn in the sand add a little more throttle. Worked most of the time, but feet(outriggers) went down if I need them.
 
#41 ·
Mitas E-07

I've done 9,000kms so far on a pair of E-07's and surprisingly the front is showing a little more wear than the rear. Still plenty of miles left in both though. I don't see the need for a more knobly front for me as the front mostly remains stable on dirt and gravel, unlike the OEM Bridgestone that used to slip and slide sideways making the bars wiggle as you tried to keep the bike pointed in the right direction.
Mind you, where there is a patch of soft anything I will try to go straight across it while keeping the front as light as I can. The V-Strom has too much weight over the front for soft sand riding.
 
#42 ·
I've done long k's on soft sand covered roads without crashing. A steering damper makes it much easier but it's doable anyway. There's no real trick but I also found it gets easier with speed - the only catch is go too fast and the crash will be spectacularly bad. I struggled through by getting to a speed where I had SOME control but also had a chance of slowing and saving it that way and leaving it at that.

Leave the ABS on and keep your speed down if it's nasty is my advice. Turning the ABS MIGHT help if you are an enduro god, but for mere mortals it's more use on than off.

(~200,000k's on DL's)

Pete
 
#52 ·
Congratulations, wingstrom, on doing your research.

I'm really a newbie, getting my learner's at 60 and my full licence at 62. My first "real" bike was a V-Strom. I was okay on sealed roads and rather nervous on gravel (OK on dirt roads) with the stock tyres. I put Mitas E-07 tyres on front and back - then I was confident on sealed and dirt, but still not too confident on gravel (just too loose for any grip).

I ended up in sand (which is the base for quite a few outback roads, and quite deep) and had to learn or just fail. With the Mitas's, I leaned back to take the weight OFF the front and used my weight over the rear tyre to steer.

Surprisingly I became confident very quickly - when you're hundreds of kilometres away from anything, you either ride or fall! Unfortunately for me, a few years later I came off - but it was my misjudgement, not a fault of the bike. I also believe my choice of a Kenda big block on the back was a mistake - the Mitas was better for me.

I now have a new 650 but haven't worn out the original tyres yet, so I'm not as confident as I will be once Mitas tyres go on. I will ride on any surface but not sand now (a simple matter of having battered my bones too much at my age). I have seen V-Stroms go where I would barely choose to walk, but those riders are extremely skillful and confident - way above my level.

As I'm short and small, I find SUZI II's weight a consideration only when parking or starting off - not once I'm underway. Even in the sand weight wasn't a problem. I did ride about 3000 km on sand until I accidentally decided to do no more.

Enjoy your riding - but I wouldn't 2-up on sand, although anything else is okay.

Doug
 
#55 ·
I didn't read the whole thread, but tire pressure makes a difference. Lower is better in soft going, giving you a larger footprint for more float. The tradeoff is tire damage from sharp objects, like broken rock. Some others with more experience on Stroms in the dirt can chime in on pressure recommendations. Front tire in the lower 20s could possibly work in slow or non-jagged locations. Bring a tire pump for changing conditions, like pavement.
 
#56 ·
Lower pressures can actually help prevent tire damage in such cases. Instead of puncturing like a balloon the tire will fold around it and give a bit. Of course every situation is different but generally you can help prevent tire damage a bit by airing down. Now rim damage is a different animal.
 
#57 ·
I ride TKC-70's on my other Glee and the front tends to wander on that too but not dramatically. They do very well on dirt and stick like glue on asphalt. I'm considering the E-07's for my 2013 but really don't like always compensating for the wandering. The Shinko 705's are on my list too. I look forward to your review of the Mitas after you get to play around with them!
 
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#58 ·
A quick update:
I installed E-07s front and rear today. I took them for a trial run in the desert behind my house. I only rode a bout a mile but am very impressed so far. It is a totally different bike off-road compared to the stock Trail Wings. I'm able to hold a distinct line now as opposed to hanging on and hoping for the best. I was mostly on hard packed surface with a light layer of sand on top. Some sections were about 3-4 inches deepof sand but I didn't hit any really deep stuff and turned around rather than attempting to cross the sandy wash behind my house (it's super deep). Even turning the bike around was much easier as the bike actually moved forward rather than sinking when I let out the clutch. I was able to do controlled power slides while keeping the front tire pointing right where I wanted. I'm hoping to put some good street and dirt miles on this weekend.


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#61 ·
Currently 32/41. I may experiment with lower pressure but most of my riding is 2up. I won't be racing around off-road with a passenger. I figure the higher pressure will help protect the rims when fully loaded if I get into rocky terrain.


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