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Wee07 Starting/Running Trouble & De-Bug Ideas

9K views 72 replies 11 participants last post by  thepaleobiker 
#1 ·
Hello Strommers,

My Wee 07, after sitting for 3 weeks in heavy rain while I was on vacation, wouldnt keep the engine running when I tried starting it.

* Initially it didnt start at all, battery was dead (I realize I might have a short/some wiring issue that's draining the battery? This will be inspected further)
* It'd start & run for couple of seconds and then die out, when I tried to sustain the RPM by giving some throttle
* A GEICO roadside assistance guy helped jump the battery and then the engine kicked up, but I observed drops of water flowing out of 2 tubes near the right foot brake lever - What does this mean?
* When he jumped it, the bike wouldnt start immediately, but after a few tries WITHOUT GIVING ANY THROTTLE, it seems to slowly start up, I gave some throttle and the engine roared up to 5-6K RPM
* I rode it about 300 yards before the engine again died and wouldnt start again ( maybe battery died out trying to start it up so much? maybe a loose connection? but why stop once it got running...??)

Could you help provide potential causes here? What Can I rule out? WHat needs inspecting? The below is list of things I could think of (please correct me if any of below are more likely or can be excluded from list of likely reasons??)

- Weak battery? (I've charged up the battery, and also bought a replacement MOTOBATT model just for backup/extra battery)
- Spark Plugs? (this is what the guy who jumped the bike advised me - the sign of water coming out from those 2 tubes were suggestive, according to him, that the spark plugs might not be sustaining spark while running)
- Fuel line issue? COuld engine be flooded/too rich? or is there potentially water leakage into bike? (I dont buy that rain could get into fuel tank...could it??)
- Wiring issue? Can wiring issue cause bike to stop running once it is on its way ?
- Anything else?

Initially I thought i'd tow it to a dealership and get it 'sorted out' 0:) but now I've got the bike into a covered space near home, so I am willing to work on it slowly over a week or two.

I'm planning on changing the spark plugs to iridium ones. It'd be great if you could weigh in on the above potential causes, thanks a bunch!!!

49K miles currently, and not sure if plugs were changed previously.

Regards,
Vish

 
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#2 ·
When it didn't start initially, the intakes got flooded with fuel. Opening the throttle to get more air in helped it start. One of the tubes is a drain for the fuel filler cap well so rain water that gets into the well drains out through the tube. Hopefully, you got some fresh fuel in the line now that it has run a bit. Charge the battery and dry out the wiring. If it doesn't start right away, open the throttle until it starts to fire.
 
#5 ·
I didn't hear the fuel pump stop whining. Wait longer before trying to start it to see if the usual fuel pump whine stops. If it doesn't, the fuel pressure is never getting up to where it needs to get and you have a fuel pump problem.

Check the fuel pump volume - Fuel flow check

Also check to see if the pump creates enough pressure to push fuel past your thumb blocking the output pipe.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Does the fuel color look alright?



Greywolf - I finally got around to doing the fuel flow test - I got a good 300ml of fuel with 3 full cycles of key turn "ON" and "OFF"







However, My fuel looked a little funky - I guess I've not looked at fuel much, but does the gasoline look fine? I felt it looked kinda greenish (I might be imagining it :D )


So given the fuel flow out of the tank is going well, and assuming the fuel line to the engine is OK, the next thing to check is whether spark plugs are in spec. Would that be the next step you suggest? Thanks again for all inputs.

Regards,
Vishnu
 
#7 ·
How about pressure? Was there enough pressure for the pump to push fuel through with your thumb holding the tube end? When you turn on the key, does the pump whine that happens at the beginning quiet after a few seconds?
 
#11 ·
Thank you for the suggestions. The I'll definitely bring a full refill using clean 91 octane fuel. I felt rather uncomfortable with the color of the fuel :(

I guess I can simply run out the current fuel using the same pipe setup?

Is there any way to ensure fresh fuel flows into the engine too? Where does all that fuel go right now, once it's in the engine and engine doesn't start? Does it collect inside the engine? (Flooding? )

I've also got new iridium plugs that I intend to install. But I can first test with new fuel in the system.

Change fuel before testing new spark plugs?

Thanks again for the quick responses.

Regards,
Vishnu

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
 
#9 ·
I was hoping someone who knew more about fuel would chime in. Some brands use dye to identify fuel but I've never seen anything like that.
 
#12 ·
Just fill with 87, there is no reason to ever use anything higher octane than that. You also might add a bit of Techron fuel system cleaner "good stuff" and let it also do its magic. Yeah that gas looks funky, almost looks like one of those nasty wheat beers. LOL
 
#13 ·
Ok, 87 gas it is! :)

I agree. Looks really like....cheap light beer....

Or pee :D !! I was kinda worried that my neighbors might see me stand up from squatting next to the bike, with a jar full of yellow liquid....and be confused as Heck.

Regards,
Vishnu

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
 
#18 ·
Made a single pic comparison.....YIKES



I know this is a deviation from original goal, but anyone got any theory as to what could have demented the 2 month old gasoline to look like that? Looks awful :( !

Glad I put new gasoline in it. The new one still has that yellow tinge in it though. It's 87 octane.

Regards,
Vishnu

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
 
#24 ·
It may be a moot point, but I'm wondering if water got into the fuel before or after it was dispensed. A few years ago I mixed a measured amount of water and gasoline with 10% ethanol to determine the actual percentage of ethanol. It looked like that, but then seperated after some time.

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#20 ·
I'd really like to start her up to test, but I've been warned by some riders via Facebook post (I posted on the v strom Facebook group as well) that I need to replace the fuel lines to avoid damaging my engine and lines due to the bad fuel previously.

Is this a big worry? I've already added copious amounts of fuel stabilizer, to hopefully clean up of that bad fuel in the line.

Your inputs are graciously accepted :)

Regards,
Vishnu

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
 
#21 ·
You do not have to replace the lines and damage is not an issue. Facebook is not a good source for tech info.
 
#25 ·
So I finally got around to changing the spark plugs - the old ones looked awful :( !!



I changed all 4, and put in iridium ones.

Then I went ahead to replace the air filter with a new one - again, it was super nasty :( . The air filter was the only maintenance item I had avoided out of laziness....But I'm glad I changed it. Used a hi Flo branded air filter.





I put the tank back on (I had changed the old bad fuel out and tested for fuel flow two weeks ago)

Sad news? Bike still didn't start :( same sound - no difference.

Anything else you'd recommend i look into? Am I missing something super obvious?

I'm tempted to take it to the dealership and get it done with, but if you think I'm missing something super obvious please let me know! Thanks again to everyone who's given advice.

Regards
Vishnu

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
 
#26 ·
Check the fuel flow and check for a strong spark.
 
#27 ·
fuel flow was good, I did the test, got 315 ml flow for 3 turns of the key.

I've a really stupid question, that dawned on me while I slept and dreamt last night - I've unplugged the headlight relay harness (eastern beaver) and only plugged in the main red and black leads to the battery - could it be that I've just unplugged too many of the leads? (There's a few other leads like the LED, stebel horn relay etc that I removed the leads to)

I'll have to try this tonight, but just wanted to know if you could confirm my silly noob error ?

Also, I had bad dreams about that dirty air filter


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#28 ·
The ground battery terminal has the large cable and a small wire with a connector to feed the bike's ground wiring. Make sure that is in place. Headlight relay and horn wiring should not have any effect on starting. Might you have any other wiring changes?
 
#31 ·
I don't recall moving anything out of the way - would the tip over relay be wired to the battery? If yes then it's surely unplugged currently - only the thick battery ground wire and the big red battery wires are connected .

Is the tip over relay wired separately from the main two motorcycle wires to the battery? (I'll also try to read up on this tip over relay)



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#32 ·
If the tip over switch was a problem, it would cause an FI on the display and the starter motor would not spin. You don't have a safety switch problem. Either you have no/weak spark, insufficient fuel pressure, bad fuel or non working injectors.
 
#33 ·
Thank you for narrowing things down like that!

- I've changed fuel to new fresh fuel with some fuel cleaner/stabilizer added for good measure

- I've checked for fuel flow and confirmed the pump is pumping it out well (dunno if the downward fuel lines into the engine are affected)

- I've changed the old spark plugs , they looked really really rich (does this eliminate the fuel injector theory? If spark plugs are jet black doesn't that mean fuel is flowing into it? Please let me know if this is incorrect thinking)

- I've NOT CHECKED FOR spark :( looks like that's the last check I can do?

I'll do the spark testing later tonight or tomorrow and come back with details. Thank you for guiding me on this.

Regards,
Vishnu

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
 
#35 ·
I forgot compression. Do a compression or leak down test. It won't start if the valves won't close for example.
 
#36 ·
Family! The Wee purred back to life to my great joy last night!

Here's my conclusion - it was the fuel all along (though I'm still mystified as to how the fuel got so bad - maybe rain water seepage? )

Changing the spark plugs might have helped, and definitely the new air filter helped it breathe better.

I also think the new fuel took 5-6 ignition on-off cycles to get pumped all around. Now she starts up smoothly like a purring beautiful tigeress [emoji56] [emoji56] [emoji56] [emoji56] [emoji56]

A huge thank you to all that provided guidance and tips along the way. My sincere thank you!

Regards,
Vishnu

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
 
#37 ·
Phew! Finally some good news.
 
#38 ·
The bike died slowly again - need additional guidance

greywolf, Big B , Cryoman : my Wee died again, but atleast I can describe my observations from start to end (pun)

I was putting the wiring back together, and had finished putting the tank back on. I started the bike, she fired right up.

1) I held the throttle so that she was at 5K-6K...after about 10 seconds she started to swing back and forth between 4K-to-5K-to-6K ....
2) The Swing then came down to 2K-to-3K-to-4K
3) Finally it was hovering at 1K and then 'stalled'
4) When I pressed start/clutch again, she fired up; I repeated steps 1 to 3 again....a few times..until then she was back to not starting again. No more starting...same as my original youtube video sound.

It definitely feels like fuel isnt flowing into the engine properly. As I typed this, I have a curiosity if the fuel line is pinched somewhere....could that happen? I've already tested fuel flow out of the tank, and I got 310 ml flow for 3 turns of ignition - shouldnt that check out?

Could my fuel injectors/ Fuel mapping be an issue? Why did my bike start up really smoothly 5-6 times before doing this same thing again?

I am confident it is a fuel 'delivery' issue, given the spark plugs/air filter/old fuel were all changed. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. She's so close to being riden again !!! :(

PS : I am glad my girlfriend lets me borrow her 2011 CBR250 0:)
 
#39 · (Edited)
You need to check pressure as well as volume. There is a rule of thumb. You should not be able to stop the flow of fuel with a thumb on the pump spigot output.
 
#43 ·
No bike cover :( it was partially under a tin roof, but definitely exposed to the elements.

I ride daily and I didn't think about a cover (she's always been fine in the rain)

Maybe 3 weeks .....was took much. Someone told me the fuel injectors into the engine could be damaged, or even the fuel mapping? Is this possible

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