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Thinking about doing a rebuild soon...

4K views 32 replies 12 participants last post by  Toshbar 
#1 ·
Tomorrow my bike arrives back from Santiago (the unknown roads -) and I'd like to give her love. The motor was starting to consume close to 1litre per 1000 miles so I was adding at every gas stop.

I've got the time to do a rebuild and I think it's a job I could undertake myself. So how far should I go? I'm thinking Pistons, rings, gaskets. Since I've got 91,000 miles might not be a bad idea to do valves and seals also?

What Pistons do you all recommend? I was considering low mileage busa Pistons.

Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks
 
#2 ·
If you are not concerned about how much money you spend, then a rebuild is a good way to go. If doing a complete rebuild I would rebuild the head also.

But, there is simply no way to build an engine like these, and do it in a way that it is good as new, for a reasonable cost.

I would simply look for a salvage engine and swap them out. Probably a better engine in the long run that building yours as you would also be getting a low mileage transmission and other components like that.
 
#3 ·
I agree with Realshelby. If it was me I would look for a used low mi. engine on e-bay or craigslist or another Bike. The cost of a complete rebuild on these engines is not cost effective.
Unless you have a special attachment for that bike...
 
#4 ·
I would agree with Terry. But you could do a few easy test to determine weather the problem lies in the heads or cylinders. If the problem lies within the heads, you could get away with minimal but costly work. But then there's the while you're in there syndrome which gets costly and time consuming. Both oem and hayabusa pistons are 81 mm but there are other factors involved too legenthy to list unless they are a proven turn key replacement. There are other high comp or 82mm, 83 mm Pistons available but to keep a ballence you need to start porting, over boring TB's, cam grind, fuel addition etc..
With these engine, I too would just replace it with a used one, but excess time, money and desire can easily influence ones decisions. :smile2:
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the replies. I agree that a low mileage engine would be easier. I'm not sure I'd agree that it'll be cheaper. I'm seeing them for $700+. The busa pistons are $50 and then I'd need rings and gaskets. From what I gather they are a direct replacement. I'm going to do more research. I'd like to keep my motor but I'm not going to do it if it doesn't make sense.
 
#6 ·
I'm a definite noob here and may be off base, but a proper rebuild of an engine includes more than just the pistons, rings, and gaskets. The cylinders generally need to be honed and block may or may not need to be decked. With the heads, having a valve job done properly is good. All of those things are expensive time set ups. There may also be some other internals you should probably replace when you're in there - timing chains/belts, wear parts, and the like.

Please take this with a grain of salt as I'm pulling my experience from car engines.
 
#7 ·
I'm going to jump on the "find an engine" bandwagon. Its not a lot cheaper to work on a MC engine than a car engine. With the cost of setups and precision in today's motors its a labor intensive process. Good work is expensive unless its your time and you really want to do it. My mechanic advises me that he can build my old, tired Chevy engine for 3 or 4 grand to build it out to 300HP. For a few hundred less I can get a "crate" motor direct from GM that is the same power, new block and a warranty. And I have the old engine to play with or sell off. As has been mentioned, keep in mind you also get a low mileage transmission and if I'm not mistaken the cylinder is hard coated with a nickle/silicone plating that reduces wear. You state that a decent used engine is around $700. That seems reasonable. If you think you can rebuild the existing engine for less, you may want to check things out. You will be shocked by the cost of little things like gaskets, seals and miscellaneous parts that are also worn, like injectors, electronic modules and such. Good luck whichever way you go.
 
#9 ·
The SV has a different air box, electronics and, I think, intake sizes. I don't know of anyone who has done a swap on a 650 but here is what it took on a 1000. SV Engine Swap & chassis overhaul
 
#10 ·
Yea I didn't think the SV was a direct swap. I got it home from the airport and have put a couple hundred miles on it. Glad to have the bike back. I think I'm going to fix up the essential stuff and worry about the oil burning later. I need a mirror, a rotor, a tire, clutch worm drive, and probably other parts.

I'm selling a low mileage 2007 abs now that I've got her back.
 
#11 ·
If it's a gen 1 DL 650, they do tend to wear out valve guides and occasionally pop the valve stem seals off. The engine will also burn oil if the air filter is clogged.
Running a heavy diesel engine oil (20w60) will usually cut oil consumption as well and buy you another 20,000k's or so.

The seals can be eyeballed with the engine still in the frame.

That's about as far as I'd go on one of these engines and even there, I'd pay someone else to replace the valve guides.

That's not saying that they aren't rebuildable, they are, it's just that in this case replace is likely to be faster easier and cheaper and by a large margin.

Change the air filter, run a heavier oil while you look around for a decent engine at a good price would be my suggestion.
 
#13 ·
My K5 started using oil at about 70K. At 90K it was up to near 1 qt. per 1,000 and new oil after a change darkened rapidly. Changed to 15-50 Mobil 1 and used Marvil Mystery oil in the gas. Consumption dropped almost in 1/2. Then last winter at 99K I found a 12,000 mile motor from an 06. Installed that for now while the original motor is rebuilt and will be installed this coming winter. I have the heads near done. Bought the Wisco 2mm over kit (12.5 compression ratio).
Found the 1st motor in quite good shape. Cylinder walls weren't worn with cross hatching still showing. Rings gap was double the spec and the oil rings collapsed to the point that they barely exceeded the sides of the piston. Lots of carbon build-up on the exhaust valves and ports The pair valves were near plugged with carbon. The valves were good and a light grinding is all it took. Valve seals just OK, but replaced.
The cost for the replacement motor was $500 and $30 for some seals. The rebuild on the 1st motor is running over $500, but less than $650.
When the rebuilt motor is installed and running later I'll report on the results.
 
#19 ·
The 650 cylinders aren't plated, just lined.
Check again. SV cylinders have a steel liner while DL has nickel silicon plated over aluminum.

Thats one of the next steps, but heard that it was under a $100.
There is a E-bay lister that I bought the Wisco kit(Pistons, rings, pins, keepers, head gaskets and spark plugs) from for $290 shipped. It lists for $420 without the plugs.
Those Wiseco kits are the way to go. I used one for my YZ450 in November. When I removed my head, I found out one of my intake valve seals was toast, so I was able to immediately replace it (and all valve seals) with parts included so I was able to do the whole top end in one night without ordering more parts.
 
#16 ·
Sounds like you might have some stuck oil rings. In that case the heavier weight oil ( 20-50) will not help consumption. The thicker viscosity is harder to wipe off the cylinder walls. It might be worth trying some 10-30 oil in it. Don't even change the filter, just drain and fill with cheap 10-30 and see what happens. Can't hurt anything.......If that does loosen the oil rings then you can go back to 10-40. If consumption goes up, then you likely have some valve seal issues or blowby is pushing oil into the airbox.....
 
#18 ·
The cylinders are SCEM plated. If you bore them out, you lose the plating and run on bare metal. It's probably not a big deal though. Here's a thread on a top end job on a DL650. WeeStrom Engine Troubles? | Adventure Rider
 
#21 ·
I'm not convinced that the cylinders are played. I've read both on this site. The thread on advrider that greywolf linked me to states they're steel liners. The pictures I see all look like steel liners. At any rate, I bought sv heads, busa pistons, and will get new rings, and gaskets. Cylindes will be honed to match the new pistons.

I considered the Wiseco kit, but the cheap one is +3mm and I think reliability will go to shit with that big of a jump.

As for my trip, the three bikes fared well considering how hard we were on them. 2 clutches, 1 stator, 2 sets of fork seals, 1 rear shock, 3 tire blowouts, fried black headlight connector, starter switch, 1 horn, and my oil burning. Glad you're enjoying it. Hopefully this bike will get renewed and have another big trip in her future.
 
#22 ·
I think the SV heads are more or less the same except for the camshafts. Which is a known improvement when installing them in a DL. Not sure if you will run into any issue at all using them. But you should carefully check valve to piston clearance since you are using the different piston.

IF the cylinders are not lined, but indeed plated, you may not really need to hone them much. Looking at the top of the cylinder it may LOOK like a liner, but the head gasket can make it look that way from the impression and marking it leaves. If the bore looks good, ie no scratches, I would be tempted to "hand hone" it with 400 grit sandpaper while keeping it flushed like with a parts cleaner stream. The plating is very thin, all you are really after is cleaning it up with the 400 grit paper. Most people don't hone cylinders correctly anyway, leaving them too rough.
 
#23 ·
The busa pistons require a very minimal hone of .030mm. We'll find out soon enough whether or not the bores are played or lined. Apparently the specs say they're plated but I read that it was a misprint and that they're steel lined. The few rebuilds have seemed to agree.

My intent is to use the SV cams and I'll be sure to check valve to piston clearance. I'm going to wait for the parts to arrive before I tear it down. But I work quickly so once I start it'll be back together in a few days.
 
#25 ·
.030 mm is .001". Which is commonly a finish hone tolerance after boring. Which in other words is quite a lot of material to remove. Zero problem on a liner equipped bore, but likely a problem on a plated bore. There is only one way to find out what it is, and it looks like you are going in that direction. I hope it goes well!
 
#24 ·
The literature says they are SCEM plated. One thing for sure is any plating, if it exists, is not just on the aluminum.

 
#26 ·
I'll keep everyone posted. All that's left to order is gaskets and piston rings. I've found a place here that will do the hone for $45/cylinder. I was hoping I could just use a flexhone but with no way to measure it seems unwise plus I'm not sure a ball hone would remove .001".
 
#27 ·
Are you removing .001" because the Busa pistons are .001 oversize? If so, better carefully measure the bores you have now. They could be worn to the correct oversize! Either way, careful measuring will let you know of any problems such as egg shaped bore or tapered bore. Neither of which a .001" hone will fix.
 
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