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Electrical Gremlin Advice Wanted

6K views 44 replies 12 participants last post by  Scootertrash in Paradise 
#1 ·
One of my 2008 DL650's developed a weird electrical problem on tour last week.

It runs fine, but all the turn signals are all on all the time, the headlights are out & unresponsive, and the dash is dead. When the ignition key is turned on the speedo & tach don't cycle but do cycle when the ignition switch is turned off.

The bike is stock, no electrical farkles or add-ons.

I haven't started the troubleshooting yet, but plan on removing the forward tuperware to get better access to the wiring.

I will say that while underneath jiggling the main harness (hard to get to) some "life" briefly emerged.

Anyone have similar issues that were solved, or advice as to where to begin the search?

Thanks in advance.
 
#2 ·
The usual problem when many things get weird is a bad ground. Probably the first place to check with those symptoms is the black/white wire connection in the large connector in the left side of the fairing. The symptoms are practically identical to those of another recent poster but we haven't heard back from him.

Stuff like that happens when headlight relays are not installed to ease the load on the stock wiring.
 
#4 ·
Plus one to loose ground wire thought

I did a couple thousand miles of "rattle and bang" roads this past summer way up north. My cooling fan connector came loose which I "discovered" when the "Red light of death" came on with five heat bars.

I also picked up an intermittent voltage blip indicated by the voltage indicator LED flashing green to red with each good bump. In going through all the wiring I found the big connector - which Greywolf mentions - was not only ready to disconnect but beginning to corrode a bit. A good cleanup and re-connection using dielectric grease seems to have solved that.

This was on my '05 Wee. With headlight relays.
 
#6 ·
Ha! Nailed it. Installing headlight relays early prevents that.
 
#7 ·
Headlight Relays---need 'em



Well I have been on the fence about doing the head light relays, and I understand the reasons, but I have been lazy until I see these pics.
Reminds me of old VW Bus problems!
Will put on this winters to do list before I get caught.
 
#11 ·
If you do your own wiring, all you are buying is two relays and some wire. All Stroms of all years will benefit from headlight relays. None come with them stock.
 
#15 ·
It's easier to unplug a bulb. The problem with that is twofold. It lowers conspicuity and more unused electricity goes into heating the stator. ADD RELAYS!
 
#18 ·
#21 ·
Had one bike with that issue. Black Labs fix worked well.

I do think I'll inspect each bike and at a minimum, if the plug & wires are OK (not charred; seems it's just the one wire) do some deox...

It's such a pain to get nto that plug, however, without removing the tupperware...which is also a pain when you have 12 bikes.
 
#22 ·
There is nothing special about the EB relay kit. You are paying for the nice connectors required to make the unit plug and play and Jim Davis' time for wiring. All you really need is two ordinary automotive relays, some wire, individual connectors and an inline 25A fuse or two 15A fuses if you want separate power to each relay. Run the grounds pictured to the battery negative instead of the chassis. Stock wiring is yellow high +, black/blue low + and black/white negative.

 
#23 ·
That's what I thought.

I'm sure EB's unit is excellent. No doubt.

Looking around the innerweb, there are numerous H4 headlight relays available. I found one for $10, however the ground wire is off the H4 plug, obviously for the chassis. It wouldn't be much of a task to make the ground wires connect to the battery instead.



Figure $15 in parts & 15 mins. rerouting the ground wires. That's a big savings...and we ALL like to save jack. That's one reason we own Wees...
 
#25 ·
I'm sure there must be. It's just that headlight relays are a relatively easy anf inexpensive way to head off problems that develop on many, not nearly approaching all, high mileage bikes.
 
#26 ·
A loss of headlights is a concern but (at least to me) not nearly as much of a concern as a burned stator......which can leave you up a creek without a paddle. In the beginning of my ownership (pre headlamp relays) of my '11 Wee, I disconnected one headlamp bulb thinking that I would free up a bit more electricity for my accessories. With that set up (according to my Datel voltmeter) I was running at 14.4 volts with no accessories in operation. Bottom line is that after installing headlamp relays.....in addition to having 2 brighter headlamps and eliminating future headlamp and harness problems.....I am now running at 14.1 volts (13.8 volts with heated jacket liner and gloves operating). This amounts to .3 volts of heat being dissipated through the headlamps and not through the stator which certainly could make a burned stator less of a possibility.
 
#27 ·
Excuse me for drifting off subject abit, but....................seems to me a headlight failure would be a safety issue and if this problem has been on all year bikes, how come there has been no recall issue on this item of safety? This would force the manufacturer to solve this problem.
 
#28 ·
I'm new - please forgive if my questions are "stupid" ( duh, everyone knows that - kind of stupid)
1) the fried pin -Is it ground or source, and does it power anything other than headlights?
2) is that connector one that requires disconnecting during normal maintenance?

I ask, as that kind of failure is almost always due to a high resistance in the connector. This can be caused by corrosion, loose connection, or circuit overload. In all cases you get thermal runaway - the resistance causes a rise in temperature in the connector, which increases the resistance, which creates heat, and so on. Since this appears to occur later in the bikes life, I doubt it is a circuit current overload due to flaw in design.

Marginal? Probably.

I'd lean more toward corrosion - early application of dialectic grease could be a solution short of adding relays ( I do think the relay fix has merit - I just want understand the root cause. It's the engineer in me - you should see what happens when you have this issue in a connector handling 2.5 Kiloamps)
 
#39 · (Edited)
I'd lean more toward corrosion - early application of dialectic grease could be a solution short of adding relays ( I do think the relay fix has merit - I just want understand the root cause. It's the engineer in me - you should see what happens when you have this issue in a connector handling 2.5 Kiloamps)
Corrosion would be one cause of a deteriorating connection. Heat cycling because the connector is too small or the metal has been mechanically distorted to lower contact area or pressure is also possible. I applied ACF50 to just about every connector on the bike I came across to fight corrosion.
Is there any merit in cleaning all the contacts/harness connections with ACF50 (we used it on airplanes to prevent corrosion, getting into every tiny closed space, like wing spars & ribs through inspection ports) and then sealing the connectors with some dielectric grease?
 
#29 · (Edited)
There is no such thing as 100% reliability. Whether the headlight failure happens often enough to create a hazard worthy of a recall is an interesting question. Use of headlight relays is common in cars but uncommon in motorcycles. V-Stroms don't seem to be any more prone to difficulty in that area than other bikes with two headlights.

Corrosion would be one cause of a deteriorating connection. Heat cycling because the connector is too small or the metal has been mechanically distorted to lower contact area or pressure is also possible. I applied ACF50 to just about every connector on the bike I came across to fight corrosion. There have even been electrical failures due to water penetrating the wiring harness and causing corrosion in crimped connections buried in the harness. Riding when salt is on the roads exacerbates the problem.

The most common problem with headlight wiring is with the headlight circuit cut out switch in the starter button housing. After that come problems with the hot side of the circuit. Ground side problems are rarer but they kill all the electrics in the fairing.
 
#30 ·
Corrosion would be one cause of a deteriorating connection. Heat cycling because the connector is too small or the metal has been mechanically distorted to lower contact area or pressure is also possible.
By observation, the ground wire in the big connector is much larger than the others---I assume because of more current flowing through, by design---yet the connector is the same size.

I can see how just a little corrosion there could create a bottleneck and more heat in that one connector. Look at the pic I posted: the connector is in good shape except for the one ground connector

Regular doses with an anti-corrosion and di-electric grease compound on electric connectors should be part of regular maintenance, especially in warm, humid, corrosion-prone environments---like the Dominican Republic.

I know it will be at Camp Moto going forward...
 
#34 ·
Dissimilar metals galvanic corrosion is indeed the problem with using the chassis for ground. I don't have a picture of the fairing bus but I do have pics of the PC8 in the fairing and buses on the battery.


 
#35 ·
The harness I ordered has a ground on each plug, so I'll need to add a bus.

Use some Posi Lock connectors to splice the two grounds together and then route one heavier gauge cable back to the battery. These connectors really work very well,. They can be undone and reconnected and make good and durable contact.
 
#37 · (Edited)
The best solution for adding circuits is to use something like a Blue Sea 6 circuit panel located under the seat. This offers + and - bus with only one wire going to each battery terminal and avoids the spaghetti nest of wires. The relays can be located on top of the circuit panel and the bundle of wires run behing the fairing to the front of the bike.

Fuses blow and relays can stop functioning. You want something with easy access to components for simple diagnosis and repair, especially on a fleet of bikes.

http://www.stromtrooper.com/maintenance-tech-farkles/216594-dual-horn-installation.html#post2829993
 
#40 · (Edited)
ACF50 is available in a grease form. I never had any but every connector that became exposed when I was working on my bike got a shot of ACF50 aerosol. Anyone riding in wet or especially wet and salty conditions would be advised to look into anti corrosion stuff like ACF50 or De-Oxit.

Also, anyone installing relays needs to install them terminals down to prevent water from pooling on electrical portions.
 
#41 ·
I received my $9 headlight relays yesterday.



In general, appear to be of solid quality and well-made with decent components. The headlight plugs are ceramic. The fuse is 40A. Certainly looks can be deceiving...:wink2:





The relay is build for an automobile. I knew that going in, and figured I'd have to do some fairly easy mods for the V-Strom application.

I also have some heat-shrink crimp terminal connectors, heat-shrink sleeves, the spiffy spin-on connectors that blaustrom suggested (really interesting and excellent connectors), and red and white 18g AWG wire (matches the harness; I wish it was 14g or 16g, but 18g will carry the load just fine). I also imported some ACF-50 that customs almost didn't allow, as well as some dielectric grease. I think I'm set for materials.

And, of course, a new tool: a real professional wire stripper, not one of those pliers-looking things...I love new tools.

I'll have to make the following mods to install the unit. I'll make proper measurements and location attachments on the first install, then do a mass production for the other 8.

1) The long headlight connector will have to be shortened. I'll cut, strip, solder an in-line connection and heat shrink, and make sure they are covered by conduit (I'll split some conduit, make the connection, back in the conduit then wrap the split with some electric tape.

2) The red (hot) wire will have to be cut and a length connected along with a heat-shrink terminal to the battery, to the proper length.

3) A black ground wire will be cut, heat-shrink terminal for the battery added and cable tied to the hot wire going forward. The end will be properly tinned.

4) Both headlight plug ground wires will the terminal connctor cut off, stripped & tinned.

Connections will made and the harness properly secured.

There may be some on-the-fly mods for full installation (like for the switch plug to the realys; I don't know how long this has to be.)

All plugs & connectors will be ACF-50's and some dielectric gease added.

The task doesn't look that difficult. I'll report the results and longivity reports.

I'm hoping for 20 mins. harness prep time, 20 mins Tupperware removal & reattchment, and 30 mins. installation. Maybe I'm dreaming.

For the budget consciuos & cheapies out there, I hope for $20 in parts (including shipping to the DR) and 1-1.25 hours labor--per bike---to have a solid headlight relay system. I look to save $500-550 over the ready-made alternative, big $$$ to me.

Any suggestions welcome.
 
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