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Unknown ongoing clutch issue

6K views 16 replies 8 participants last post by  realshelby 
#1 ·
About a month ago, my clutch began slipping with only 37k on the bike. We pulled apart the bike, clutches looked fine BUT we noticed one of the rings in the back of the clutch basket had slipped in front of one of the discs. I have no idea if thats relevant to anything, but its a detail. Got it all back together, clutch was still slipping. Wasn't engaging at all actually. Bike was at a friends house, he did some researching, found something, got the idea to pop a screw loose on the slave cylinder. He said he barely loosened it and he heard and pop and after tightening it back down, everything was engaged properly, I rode it home that night. Brand new clutch was still slipping. Got the idea to clean the slave cylinder, figured clutch wasn't fully disengaging because slave cylinder was dirty. Pulled it all off, cleaned slave and pushrod. Got it all clean, put it back, clutch won't disengage. Dug on forums, found thread on the slave over extending the pressure plate, sure enough I'm a dumbass and pushed it out too far. Need to know how to do the oil-hole trick, I'm sure I'm doing it wrong. Any other thoughts on why a new clutch is slipping?
 
#2 ·
Sounds like a myriad of problems. If you're referring to the flat and concave/convex rings, they must be installed in a spacific order and direction. If by the screw on the slave you mean the bolt, if there was a pop upon loosening the slave was most likely cocked on installation. A common problem. I don't have a link to the oil hole procedure, but I've freed one up by having someone push me and the bike while in gear and constantly depressing and releasing the clutch lever. I believe the plates re engaged while pushing the bike backward but can't recall. I'd loosen the slave bolts completely and alternately retighten each a half turn at a time until the unit is snug before continuing though.
 
#3 ·
did you happen to install aftermarket clutch and Brake levers?
 
#4 ·
On my 2002 DL1000 I've had to replace the clutch slave cylinder and I've installed a Werks basket. So I've seen the innards on both sides.

Due to extensive research beforehand, here are the common pitfalls I managed to avoid.

Reference: https://www.motorcyclespareparts.eu/suzuki-parts/motorcycles/dl1000-v-strom-2002/clutch-450926.aspx

On the slave cylinder side:
- Don't lose the pin (#28)
- Don't forget to put the spacer (#32) around the left bolt in the proper position. All too easy to get this wrong.
- When installing the slave cylinder, do NOT engage the clutch handle. This puts too much strain on the whole system and the result will be that something is crooked. The lever should be fully disengaged, and before mounting the cylinder, the piston should be pressed into the cylinder as much as possible. Only once the slave cylinder is bolted in place should you pump the lever a few times to make sure everything is engaged properly. (Note that, with the lever disengaged, the weight of the clutch fluid will try to push the piston out of the slave cylinder. Make sure you put a tie-wrap or something over the slave cylinder assembly to prevent this, while the slave cylinder is off the MC.)
- Clean the pushrod (#21) really well, possibly put a bit of hose over it to protect it from further dirt accumulation.
- Clean the area around the pushrod really well (brake cleaner) and make sure the drain hole is open. Also there's a bit of gasket protruding here, which you can easily cut off. This is a location where a lot of dirt collects, especially if you habitually overgrease the chain, so you may want to clean this area at every service in the future.
- Later model DL1000s received an extra rubber dust cover (#25A, part number 2316602F20) to protect the slave cylinder from dirt. This is an easy and cheap retrofit when you're in there anyway.

On the clutch basket side:
- There is a precise order and orientation in which the clutch plates and friction plates go in. Plus some spacers and whatnot. Read the maintenance manual carefully.
- The last, and only the last, friction plate (#10) is rotated through about 20 degrees (one lug) compared to the others. The gaps between the lugs on the clutch basket (#1) are so that it seems you can put the last two friction plates (#10 and one #11) in, rotated one lug, but that is NOT correct. If you install things this way, the clutch will not engage or disengage ever (forgot which one it was).
- Make sure all sprockets are properly engaged when you put the clutch basket (#1) in. One of the sprockets down there - I think the one to the oil pump - is actually in two halves, spring loaded against each other (to prevent noise/play), and there's a little trick to get the clutch basket sprocket to engage properly.
- The bolts (#5) that hold the disc (#13) in place need to be tightened in a criss-cross star pattern so that everything is tightened evenly.
You may want to look up the video on the Werks basket installation to see all the pitfalls on this side.

The DL1000 has a hydraulic clutch system which self-adjusts when the friction plates wear down - if ever. So by design it cannot simply not slip one day, and slip the next. That leads me to believe that something was installed wrong from the start, but you only started noticing this right now. Or did you maybe put the wrong (car?) oil in it, around the time the plates started slipping?
 
#5 ·
First let me say there is almost NO chance your clutch plates are/were worn. If the clutch is slipping, it is almost certain there is another problem. There are two steel discs at the back of the clutch. The flat one goes on first, to protect the soft aluminum from the next one. The second part is not flat. You want to put it in place so that when seated the outer edges are away from the flat steel plate installed first. This assembly is what helps separate the plates and allow smooth engagement when clutch pressure plate applies the pressure to engage the clutch. These WILL be inside the first clutch friction disc, which happens to be the ONLY disc with a larger inner diameter ( to give room for the steel discs ). Hearing a pop when loosening the slave cylinder can mean many things. It MUST be seated properly, meaning slowly tighten each fastener a little at a time to seat the slave cylinder flat to the mounts. Slipping of a clutch that has NOT been apart recently is almost always something to do with the slave cylinder internally, how it is mounted, or the clutch pushrod is sticking do to gunk buildup.

If the clutch assembly has been apart and is slipping, besides the slave cylinder/pushrod issues mentioned before, it is usually because the clutch plates were assembled with TWO friction discs in the short slot of the aluminum basket fingers. Only ONE disc is supposed to go there, two will NOT work. If the clutch will not engage after being apart, aside from possible issues with slave/pushrod, then it is usually because the pressure plate splines are NOT engaged in the inner hub splines. This will not allow power transmission. You can see this by looking into the oil fill cap hole. If most of the pressure plate extends past the fingers on the basket, then the pressure plate is not seated.

I have a video on my website that will go over some of this in better detail:

Clutch installation
 
#6 ·
Thanks for the replies. Through reading some I'd like to say the bike has been ridden since the new clutch was installed. After I removed and cleaned the slave cylinder the clutch won't reengage.
 
#7 ·
I am going to assume you mean the bike won't move forward when in gear when you now let out the clutch lever.

After removing the slave cylinder, and the bike won't move due to clutch not engaging, it is most likely that your pressure plate splines have slipped out of their grooves in the inner hub. Then they became lodged on top of the hub splines. Meaning the clutch plates cannot have pressure applied to them. This can be checked by looking into the oil fill cap hole and inspecting the position of the pressure plate.

This thread has some pics of the pressure plate NOT engaging the splines:
Pressure Plate
Post #24 has a couple pics with the pressure plate in the correct position. Would be nice to have a more side view, but know that the outer edge of the pressure plate is all that should be past the fingers on the basket when seated properly.: Proper Position
 
#8 ·
Yes, this seems to be the (current) problem. Is there a way to fix it without taking my crankcase cover off again?
 
#9 ·
First check your slave cylinder bolts to be sure the long one is at the top, it is the one that has the aluminum sleeve over it. If you put the long one at the bottom you will not be able to tighten the slave cylinder down fully, and this can cause your clutch to slip. You can tell if you have the bolts on wrong by pulling your clutch lever, if the slave cylinder moves even a tiny bit, then you have the bolts in wrong. Fix that first.

Next you need to pull clutch lever in fully and tie it down, then remove oil fill plug and put a screwdriver in and attempt to turn that outer plate until it is in between the gaps of the plate in front, letting the clutch out should then let it seat properly.

Some people say that is not possible, but I also have heard some people have done it, so see how it goes. Be careful you don't scrape metal bits into your engine with the screwdriver doing this.
 
#10 ·
UPDATE:
Through all of the knowledge I found the best way to reseat the pressure plate.
I shoved a big ass screwdriver in the oil fill hole and walked the bike around in gear until it popped in place. I probably looked like an idiot but it totally worked.

Took the bike on a 20-mile loop. Clutch is still slipping under heavy accelleration. I need to check my bolts like Bugzy said, but I'm 90% sure they're right. I'm guessing the clutch just needs to be broken in still? It has all of 40 miles on it.
 
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#11 ·
That is cool. One other thing to check, if the bolts are in correctly, if you have an aftermarket clutch lever, some of the cheap Chinese ones are not designed correctly and will cause your clutch to slip. Try it with a stock clutch lever and see if issue goes away. You could also try bleeding your clutch lines, maybe there is air in it.
 
#12 ·
Break in on a clutch, I've never had a new bike with clutch slippage? Also never tie down your lever when you pull off the slave, if anything you want to ziptie the cylinder to the slave body to keep it from working out.
 
#14 ·
I am not sure why the manual says this, but I believe it is wrong. With lever tied down you are exerting hydraulic pressure on the push rod and compressing the clutch springs. I leave the clutch lever alone and you will not be fighting against the clutch springs when remounting the slave. Remove slave and place a socket on piston then wrap with tape around socket and slave body to keep piston from easing out of bore due to hydraulic pressure from the reservoir being a few feet higher than slave.

Like others have said, make sure bolts and spacer are correct under the slave when mounting. I push slave body against motor case with my hand getting it square then slowly tighten the two bolts back and forth evenly so that the slave goes on straight.

Others have asked.....make sure the oil you are using is JASO MA rated for wet clutches. New clutches do not need a break in and should not slip.
 
#16 · (Edited)
To expand on this a bit:

With the clutch lever released, there is an open path from the fluid in the clutch lever ("master cylinder") reservoir to the fluid in the hose. The (weak) spring that's internal to the slave cylinder assembly forces the slave piston out (and thus pulls fluid into the line) until it's just snug against the clutch push rod - this is the auto adjustment inherent in the hydraulic clutch system. (BTW the hydraulic brake system works the same way wrt. its auto adjustment.)

As soon as you pull the clutch lever, a piston in the master cylinder assembly forces its way into the master cylinder, first closing the path between the reservoir and the line, and then putting pressure on the fluid in the hose. Which, in turn, pushes fluid against the piston in the slave cylinder, extending it outwards. This actuates the push rod that runs through the clutch basket, eventually pushing the clutch plates apart.

The reason for the advise to pull the lever when working on the clutch assembly, is as follows: With the lever pulled, you cannot pull any more fluid into the hose (from the reservoir) than what's already there. After all, the path from the reservoir to the hose is now closed. This means that if you unbolt the slave cylinder, the piston cannot fall out on its own. Think of it this way: If you would pull the slave cylinder piston out somehow, you would create a vacuum in the line, which would pull the piston right back into the cylinder. So with the lever pulled, you can work on the assembly without having to worry about the slave piston falling out.

The disadvantage of this method is that by the time you reassemble things, you are now working under tension. After all, you pulled the clutch lever against the springs in the clutch basket assembly. So you now need to overcome this tension. This can be done, but there's a big risk that something, somewhere along the line, gets jammed or crooked. Not good.

The alternative method is not to pull the clutch lever at all.

By not pulling the lever before disassembly you leave the path between the hose and the reservoir open. So you can simply manually press the piston back into the slave cylinder before reassembly, and do the reassembly when things are not under tension. Much easier, and a much lower risk that something ends up jammed or crooked. But there's a disadvantage. Gravity acting on the fluid in the hose and reservoir will put a very slight, but continuous pressure on the slave piston, and this is not opposed by anything. This will slowly, eventually, push the piston all the way out and spill hydraulic fluid all over the place. Typically after a few minutes, when you're elsewhere in the maintenance process, so not paying attention. Of course, hydraulic fluid is toxic, will ruin paint (including the paint on the garage floor - ask me how I know...) and this opens up all sorts of possibilities for contamination, lost/damaged parts and whatnot. Not to mention the need to bleed the system afterwards. So, not good.

The trick therefore is to put a tie-wrap or something around the slave cylinder to prevent the piston from popping out. Only take the tie-wrap off just before you reinstall the slave cylinder, and push the piston in as far as it will go. That will give you enough time to seat the slave cylinder properly before the piston pops out all the way.

And if you need more time, for some reason, the trick would be to push the slave cylinder piston in all the way (not just against the hydraulic pressure, but also against the internal spring) and then pull the clutch lever just a bit. Not all the way, but sufficient for the master cylinder piston to enter the cylinder fully. This will "lock in" the hydraulic pressure without extending the piston so much that you're now reassembling things under tension.
 
#17 ·
I do NOT tie the clutch lever to the grip. I do NOT remove the slave cylinder when working on clutches. I have NEVER had a piston come out of a slave cylinder, and I have had clutches apart scores of times. I simply push the mushroom shaped part back into the transmission shaft and put the pressure plate on.

Manual direction...or not, I have had a LOT of customers call when working on their clutch that have had problems directly related to tying down the clutch lever. Very common to have the pressure plate splines misaligned. One reason the manual might recommend tying down the lever is simply to guard against someone walking by and depressing the lever while the clutch is out. Which would make a mess! Working against the hydraulic pressure that tying the lever gives just complicates the assembly. If you MUST tie down the lever, when you go to install the pressure plate release the lever and push back the mushroom shaped part that pushes against the bearing in the pressure plate back till it hits the transmission input shaft.

Clutches that slip any at all, at any time, are not right. Oil ( JASO MA or otherwise ) is NOT a factor in this. There is something not installed correctly, or there is binding in the pushrod/slave cylinder causing sticking. This won't allow the mechanism to fully retract and that means the clutch plates don't have enough tension to hold properly.
 
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