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Loose rotor magnets, was loose stator magnets

67K views 163 replies 34 participants last post by  TheMacGyver007 
#1 · (Edited)
My 2003 Vstrom with 63k miles was not charging the battery and I tested the stator it was not putting out the right numbers. I ordered a stator and pulled the side cover off this morning.All the magnets were loose and one was even broke in two and three stator coils were black.

I was hoping not to find a mess like this.But it did have alot of miles and I had a serious accident on it a couiple years ago .I broke my tibula,fibula and ankle.I went and ordered another rotor and hope to get it back together soon.

I will check the reg,rectifier after the prior job is finished and will see if it is doing ok.The bike has been problem free except for the usual tires,brake pads and such so i cant complain too much.Somewhere I read the newer stroms have contained magnets so this will not happen again .
 
#2 ·
Me Too!

Magblast,
You probably read my post about the same issue on my 04. Shame we have to deal with this. I'm going to order a new flywheel/magneto from Partszilla if I can't find some magnets from another Vee enthusiast. At present I'm waiting for a flywheel puller to arrive. Make sure you get all the pieces of magnet out if the broken one was fractured at all. I had a lot of big chunks on the stator side of the engine. I didn't find any significant pieces on the clutch side but I did find a fair amount of the magnet epoxy under the oil prescreen. This ordeal is giving me a chance to address the chudder issue in the off season. Maybe you should consider it if you take the clutch side off. From the multitude of posts I've read, it sounds like RealShelby's Werks modification performs really well. Pooky
 
#3 ·
At present I'm waiting for a flywheel puller to arrive. Pooky
I hope you mean the 14mm x 1.5 bolt/tool to remove the rotor, not a conventional gear type puller with 3 arms that attach behind the part. Cause they don't work! I guess some might come off with one, but the bolt/tool in the center is the right way to do it.
 
#4 ·
Flywheel Puller

RealShelby, I ordered a Motion Pro model#08-0085 single bolt/stud style puller from a local Suzuki dealer. It measures 20MM x 1.5 which is what I've seen elsewhere and what he came up with. I have a 22MM at the house which is only slightly too big so I'm thinking 20MM is the right size not 14MM. I hope your mistaken, for my sake! Pooky
 
#5 ·
You are correct, 20mm, that is the right tool. My bad! I think I posted the wrong size once before and someone corrected me. That's what is good about a site like this!

Even the correct tool can need a bit of force. I like an air impact wrench on them. A good tightening with a socket/wrench could remove it ( it will on some ). If you get it pretty tight and it still isn't loose, carefully hit the end of the tool with a decent size hammer. That usually does it. It is a taper fit and has a woodruff key and once it moves any at all it will be loose.
 
#6 ·
I'm sending three magnets to Pooky that I salvaged from my ordeal with this situation. I had the proper puller, but let me tell you, that sucker was ON TIGHT! I had to borrow a bigger hammer from my neighbor, a tap won't do it.
 
#7 ·
Check the polarity of the magnets. They need to be installed so they alternate North, South, N, S, etc. This can be checked with a simple compass.

When re-gluing the magnets, it is essential to clean all oil out of the pores of the material. Use your choice of solvents and get them completely clean.

So, does the clutch judder of the Vee cause the magnets to shake loose?
 
#9 ·
I couldn't stand it any more and changed the thread title.
 
#10 ·
Reglued Mine Last Night!

NewSuz did in fact respond to my plea for help and sent me 3 magnets to repair my rotor. Many thanks to him for saving me big bucks! The other guys are correct that the polarity matters and they need to go in so that they will want to stick end to end with each other. My magnets must have been spinning around for a while inside my rotor so they didn't have residual glue remaining on them to give me an idea of how to put them back in. I pulled mine out without taking note of how they were in. If you are prepared you need to mark the outsides of the magnets BEFORE you remove them. When NewSuz sent me the three I needed, his still had glue on them that showed me how they were to be installed. When they go in they need to be recessed in until they hit an inner ledge inside the rotor. The magnets may have glue remaining on them that shows which side was against the ledge. Make sure you put them in this same way. Remember, preparation is key. I cleaned my rotor with brake cleaner prior to gluing. I sanded all the old glue off the magnets after I marked what would be the outside with a black marker. Used the original JB Weld, not the 5 minute stuff, as others have said that it does not perform as well. Applied as light a film of epoxy on the magnet as possible. I put them in place and pressed down on them hard to push out all the excess glue. I used 1/4" tile spacers between the magnets to maintain the gaps. I would recommend them. The magnets WILL slide towards each other if you don't keep them separated with some type of spacer. Hopefully, you can get some ideas from my pics. Pooky:yesnod:
 

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#12 · (Edited)
Rotor

After waiting 2 weeks after ordering my rotor from Bike Bandit it arrived today.They sent me the wrong one my bike is a 2003 and the 2002 rotor was sent.I called BB back and they are going to ship the right one this time I am keeping my fingers crossed.Well the part never arrived so I called them back and they overnighted it to my house.
 
#13 · (Edited)
So, I figure it's probably best to pull the rotor from the bike to re-set the magnets, but is it necessary? From what I read on the forum, it's likely a waste of time to try to pull it without the special puller tool.

Mr. In A Hurry doesn't want to have to wait for a special one-use puller tool to arrive in the mail.

Or do I need to be patient and order one?

Anyone pulled the rotor by another method that didn't end up in tears?

How much of a pain is it to do the job with the rotor left on the bike?
 
#16 ·
So, 5 magnets slid right on out. Just used a paint can opener and gave them a gentle tug. Thinking easy peasy, right?.

Sixth magnet not so much. It's stuck good. (Just like it should be.)

I've carved away all exposed adhesive and already chipped a tiny bit off the back corner trying to pry it loose.

What do I do now? Chuck it in the oven? (In which case I'm back to square one and needing a puller...) :confused:
 
#17 ·
On every one that was stuck I have been able to put a flat blade screwdriver in the space between magnets and wiggle back and forth to move them. Don't get carried away of course. Does your rotor still have the holes in it? Those holes are supposed to be between the magnets. Maybe the one that is stuck doesn't need to be moved? Putting JB Weld under the magnet is less important than between them.
 
#18 ·
No holes drilled in this rotor. Must be the later version. And no other magnets left in the rotor to pry against. They slid out with no effort whatsoever. They had all broken loose and moved up against the stuck magnet.

As you suggest, I think I'm going to leave it be and sandwich it with JB Weld. If it hasn't worked loose yet, I don't think it's going to. This is getting an old and tired bike anyway at 170000kms. It will be put out to pasture before this job needs doing again.

On a related note, I think these magnets moved quite some time ago, when I was experiencing advanced clutch chudder. Probably the chudder was an aggravating factor. I have one of those three-colour LED volt meters on the bike and noticed it was having trouble charging the way it did when it was new, though things were still workable. I run lots of heated gear in the winter and began to have to modulate things more. Hopefully, with the magnets back in place (luckily all are in good shape), and a new stator (old one is toast), I'll be back in toasty warm conditions this winter.
 
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#20 · (Edited)
I would agree that if that final magnet doesn't want to come out, glue the exposed edges and use it as the reference magnet and space the others out from it using your 1/4" spacers. Since I hadn't removed the rotor, I used zipties as my spacers....

I never removed my rotor but I did use a strong light and mirror to check for damage on the blind side and I seem to remember putting a bit of liquid wire protector over a couple places where the insulation looked a bit thin.

Pooky, GREAT job, I think you are going to be good to go. As mentioned, CLEAN as in ZERO OIL or grease is most important because the J&B will not hold if oil is present. Just to share this with you guys.....I build a lot of very high performance 2 stroke engines and J&B is so good that I've used it for years INSIDE the ports to change intake and exhaust tracts and shapes and have never had it let go but again, it has to be virgin clean!

jeff
 
#21 ·
Just picked up a new stator, should get it buttoned up this weekend.

Hoping the R/R is okay. Not sure how to test it (service manual shows a 6 pin plug while mine is 4 pin...) Anyone have experience testing the R/R with the bike in pieces?
 
#22 ·
R/R failure is rare.

 
#24 · (Edited)
Think my R/R is toast.

The unit gets extremely hot when running. Too hot to keep your hand on it for more than a few seconds.

All the diode drop figures look fine, according to the chart Greywolf kindly posted, but those asterisks in the test chart show nothing. I think something in the regulator side is cooked.

New OEM on order as soon as I get a chance tomorrow, I guess. Or, if anyone has a used R/R they want to send my way for a reasonable price and quickly, let me know.

Love my new DRZ but missing the Vee. She's been off the road for a month now. The DRZ just isn't up to lugging hockey gear in any comfortable sort of way.
 
#25 ·
The asterisks show the battery voltage in the tester. Your tester's battery is probably dead. They have nothing to do with the health of the R/R if they are all the same.
 
#26 ·
I used three different testers. All have good batteries. They show no reading at all, no voltage either above or below 1.4V. It's like that circuit is fried.

I'm pretty sure the heat being produced by the R/R is excessive, though I have never checked it before and can't really compare its state now with how it behaved before. But it's hot enough to melt plastic. That can't be good. :confused:
 
#27 ·
Those asterisks show the tester voltage between the stator yellow(or black on some models) AC wires and other points. A bad stator will show problems there. Have a good stator in place before worrying about the R/R. You can install a series R/R to probably lengthen the life of a new stator but it's unlikely your present R/R has a problem.
 
#28 · (Edited)
The system needs help IMO, so I put a newer design SH775 on mine hoping it may take some heat off the stator.

My stator was burnt, all of my magnets were out of place and most were touching. 16,000 or so miles later its still going with the OEM parts and a SH775 conversion. If I was doing the repair today, I would put a SH847 on for the higher rating. Probably would run cooler. The SH775 gets plenty hot on a summer day, you don't want to touch them for long when in use. Its a big ole heat-sink, they supposed to get hot. They sell SH775 and SH847's here: Home
 
#29 ·
Checked the R/R output voltage to make sure I wouldn't fry anything by hooking it up. Steady 14.5-14.8 V all the way up to 5000rpm.

All back together and took it to work in the pouring rain today - about 100km round trip. No running issues. All seems fine.

Except for one thing: My LED volt meter goes intermittently dead. It's one of those multi-colour (red/yellow/green) indicators. It's always green when it's indicating, but cuts out. I don't think I mentioned this earlier, but this is what freaked me out when I first hooked things up - I revved the motor and the volt meter went dead. It's never done that before in 10 years. I figured the voltage might have spiked so I shut things down immediately. That's when I noticed how hot the R/R was.

Anyway, I think it was just a coincidence. The LED turned itself on and off the whole way today, especially at idle. Looks to be behaving like a bad connection. Will investigate this weekend.

Long story short: I'M BACK BABY!!!! :laugh2:
 
#30 · (Edited)
14.8V is the absolute maximum though Suzuki thinks 15.5V is. I even think higher voltage results in shorter stator life. I may have to eat my words about a R/R problem being unlikely. Did you take the voltage reading off the battery? If not, you may have missed a correction factor.
 
#32 ·
14.8V is the absolute maximum though Suzuki thinks 15.1V is.. I even think higher voltage results in shorter stator life. I may have to eat my words about a R/R problem being unlikely. Did you take the voltage reading off the battery? If not, you may have missed a correction factor.
Tested at the battery which is brand new and fully charged.

My service manual says 14.0-15.5V at 5000 rpm is an acceptable range. But that's the 2002 manual for a bike with a different charging system. It sounds like you have different specs??

Also, located the cause of the intermittent volt meter. Bad contact at a connector.
 
#33 ·
My memory failed me on the 15.5V being okay with Suzuki. That's absurd IMHO. Here's a generic chart. Voltage range is not model specific. Subjecting system parts to excessive voltage can cause problems regardless of make and model, car, truck or bike.

 
#34 ·
Checking a R/R is easy, start the bike and see what it puts out at the battery terminals. No drama, either it works or it doesn't.

15.0 is not ideal on the AGM battery for sure. Get a Datel voltage monitor and you can see voltage under the starting load too. That lets me know when its time for a battery. You don't want to see 10 volts when starting, more like the high 11's. Mine cranks at 11.7 right now with a name brand premium battery installed this year.

The SH775 seems to maintain a more desirable voltage of 13.90 on average when I check it at the battery. With a strong battery my bike idles at 13.9 to 14.0 with the SH775 upgrade. With my heated jacket liner and heated gloves on I still hold 13.7 steadily. I guess I'm happy with the SH775, but I wonder if the SH847 would do any better? In the summer time playing in traffic the R/R under the side plastic gets HOT, but it cools off once I get rolling. The DL650 puts it in a better location IMO. But, it works beside the seat apparently, close to the battery on the DL1000.

The best investment with any magneto or stator equipped bike is an on-board real time voltage monitor. No idiot lights, an actual 00.0 reading digital volt meter is key. The goldwing parts site has a $25 meter that works okay and its waterproof but the $50 or more Datel is better quality and more reliable. I've had both.

If you don't ride daily get a decent battery charger and use it. Its important to use a battery charger that will float charge correctly, many overcharge, some under. I get lots more battery life using a smart charger. Best to make sure the stepped chargers actually work correctly too. I've had a so called "smart" Shakespeare maintenance mode charge at 15.0 without shutting off. I have two Genius chargers now, with lithium and AGM modes plus the desulfate mode they do a good job, I think they are better than my old Battery Tender Plus that got wet. My genius is water proof.
 
#35 ·
Checking a R/R is easy, start the bike and see what it puts out at the battery terminals. No drama, either it works or it doesn't.
This is my thinking at the moment. Given that criteria, things should be fine.

I'll report back the bike's performance after a few more rides. It will get another 500 kms next week. That should be enough to rule out R/R trouble.
 
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