StromTrooper banner

Skaty Strom

6K views 54 replies 20 participants last post by  saturn 5 
#1 ·
Howdy all

Ive had my 650 for a couple of years now. It had intermediate tyres on it when I bought it and at the first replacement the mechanic put the same ones on.

I do about 98% of my riding on the road. Just a couple of times have I been off the tar. On good dirt roads I find it ok. But if there is any loose stuff, sandy covering or stones it seems very, very skaty and it always feels like the front is going to go out from under me.

Last week in the mountains west of Canberra, the dirt/rock road felt like riding on marbles. And eventually I had a very big stack - despite going slow and careful.

So my question is this - is the V Strom not really good off road at the best of times, is it the tyres, or am I just a crap rider (if you think I am, you can tell me, I've got the stones).

I so want to be able to hit the mountain roads, but not like I did last week.

Also I'd like to replace the plastic fairings which were damaged in the stack. Anyone know some good websites where I may get them cheaper than the outrageous prices quoted by my dealer?

Thanks.

Fess
 
See less See more
#2 · (Edited)
People debate the off-road-worthiness of the VStrom. Suffice to say, it'll do gravel roads no problem, and a lot more than that in my opinion and experience.

You'll overcome the skitty skatey feeling by dropping tire pressures to roughly 20psi front and back. Makes a world of difference.

As long as it's dry, and gravel, your street tires should be fine.

Once it's wet, muddy and clay etc, better to have dual-sport or semi-nobby tires but not worth it if 98% of your riding is on sealed roads. Same to be said for a steering damper.

A fork brace though (from Ricks in the USA - google it) will help cornering both on and off road.

Biggest thing though, is let the air out. And that's a free modification. Carry a 12v air-compressor from SuperCheap to reinflate at the other end, or just ride easy, around 80km/hr till you get to a servo with an airpump.

For riding skills, see recent thread for off-road training - courses and DVDs are available and can be v helpful.

Happy trails,
 
#3 ·
Fess; first of all welcome to the site. The Strom is perfectly OK on dirt roads mainly because of the 150mm travel on the front and back suspension. Most of the dirt riders on this site have sorted the suspension to best suit their weight by spring adjustment and also tuned the compression and rebound by changing the fork oil,adding gold valves or similar to the front and maybe a new rear shock. The details of how to do this are easy to find on Stromtroopers. A standard bike will be OK on dirt but tuning will make it better.
However....the Strom is top heavy and you must adjust your riding to account for this. You may need to practice your dirt road skills and I recommend that you do, my motto is "travel by gravel and double your map" You will find the back roads will take you to interesting places most people miss and the rewards are many in my opinion. If you practice dirt road skill I believe you will be a better allround rider for it. Most of us here if not all, have come undone on dirt but kept practicing until drops are rare.
If you are new to dirt the tips are many but I will offer just two.
Pick a clear path say for the next 30 meters and keep your main focus there and ride to that point and as that 30 meter point changes keep riding to that point ahead and thus you travel down the road. Once that 30 meter path is clear just let the road pass without watching just in front of your wheel. Keep your focus well ahead just as you do on tar.
Standing on the pegs places your centre of gravity low at peg level and will give better stability.
OK three tips. A two wheeled bike gains stability with speed, so power on when things are loose and slow back down on the good bits, mostly on the back brake which can also give stability. Is that now five? Oh well no extra charge.
Don't replace the plastics yet, wait till you get to be good on dirt. If you fit crash bars you will also need bark busters to keep the plastics safe.
Keep practicing as dirt riding has it's rewards.

Saturn 5
 
#4 ·
What suzy said

Hey Fester,What suzy said, is good advice . I also think standing on the pegs makes the bike more stable[to that end I would add wider steel -rat trap- footpegs].
But you cannot escape that skatey feeling. That's how they feel.[ That's how my Gasgas enduro bike feels as well]. You just need to get comfortable with that
Maintaining speed is the key, but it is also the key to higher speed crashes[very bad].
If you have the nutz.... the front end bad feeling can be helped by throttle application. This does weight transfer to the rear[can be further helped by leaning back] and will in the right[most] instances make the front end go from tucking to either tracking or sliding. But up goes the speed!!![I call the tucking -front rudder]

The best advice is to get skilled on other lighter purpose made dirt bikes, then transfer the techniques the the big girl.

Get comfortable with the bike skating and sliding, and steer it from the rear[by gentle, controlled, power sliding].

If possible ride with others who are skilled already in this riding, and you will learn from watching/copying.

This is just my opinion, and it works for me.........

Cheers
Scott
 
#5 ·
Tyre Pressure

Hi, As we know the V-strom is set up for road. To work well on dirt tracks gravel raod and the like it is really all about tyre pressure and soft suspension as mentioned by saturn the only down side is that on a bike we dont have a compressor to pump the tyres up at the end of every gravel road otherwise we would literally have the best of both world
 
#6 · (Edited)
If you have no previous off road experience the Strom will be very much the big pig it is for you off road. The best thing you could do is not fiddle with the Strom settings but go and do an off road training course, something like the one BMW run or even a Trials Experience course. Learn the basics of off road riding THEN apply what you have learnt to your trips on the Strom.

Btw. I have never found the need to drop tyre pressure or fiddle with the suspension. The Strom is a pig in the dirt just accept that and take control of it.
 
#8 ·
In the end dirt riding is a mental approach. I know blokes who get anxious on 50 meters of road works. Fair enought too if it's just watered slippery clay, that can tighten the sphincter!:yesnod:
The Strom isn't the classiest girl in the world when it comes to dirt but they have been ridden in the most outrageous places I'd be reluctant on an MXer.
They are fine for dirt roads, take it easy and don't be put off by your little mishap as in the end the rewards are there.

Saturn 5
 
#9 ·
Standing on the pegs places your centre of gravity low at peg level
Well, actually the combined center of gravity of bike & rider rises, 'cuz the rider's body is higher. What standing on the pegs accomplishes is to decouple the bike from the rider and let each move somewhat independently. That is where the added steadiness comes from. Riding looser on the bike while seated is also a help. Let the bike move around somewhat under a stable upper body.
 
#10 ·
+1 Combined center of gravity rises, but you do getbthe ability to throw your weight around to compensate for the bike.

I have never ridden off-road before and I'm incredibly nervous on the loose stuff. I went to an off road race a few weeks ago and was amazed to see a Vee competing with the quads. That said, the owner was a loony, and even he switched to a KTM for day 2. He had a good laugh because I wouldn't even park off the road in the gravel to watch the start :)

It's something I need to deal with. There are fantastic places to see here if you venture off the tarmac.
 
#11 ·
My Battle Wings are funky in the dirt and great on the road.
A lot of it though is ...YOU.
Apple and Oranges here but for comparison I watched some BMW GS boys doing the English trials at a rally some had Knobby tires too and a bloke on an old /2 with the panniers on and stock tires was besting a lot of them.
Remember, a few years ago there were not any paved roads and no purpose made knobbies. Folks just rode what they had all over Aus and the US like no big deal.
Arguably the more dirt oriented tires will make you feel more secure in the dirt but will have a shorter life on the pavement.
 
#12 ·
As those in the know have said its all about confidence,tyre pressures, practice and more practice.The more dirt you do the easier it all becomes.
Having said that,all my big whooops moments have all been from plain old lack of concentration when at cruising speed on the dirt,add concentrate to the list:green_lol:
I cant add anything to the Strom tyre debate as the Wee is still running stock.Dunlop 606s are amazing on the KLRs,at the right pressure they can be run anywhere.Anyone have them on a Wee ?
Cheers, Macca
 
#13 ·
Thanks guys. I truly appreciate all the feedback.

It seems my failed stunt in the forest came down to option 3 - I'm a crap rider.

Luckily the crash bars spared a lot of damage. I also have a fork brace but I gotta say that after putting it on I couldnt really notice too much difference.

Yep, practice is the key and maybe its time to fork out some sheckles and do a riders course. And I'll probably start by purchasing the off road DVD.

Thanks again.

Fess
 
#14 ·
The Strom is OK on smooth dirt but is a pig on loose gravel, a steering dampener is your best insurance on loose and deep gravel it will also control the tankslappers when the front bottoms on the corrugations. Stand up and keep a steady speed to stop it ploughing, roll off the power gently avoid sudden braking and downchanges. I've just got back from a 3000km 5 day jaunt around the Brindebellas and the NSW and Vic high country, drop dead beautiful but would have been a lot better on the dirt on a more appropriate bike.
 
#18 ·
Dammit! Wrong again.

I had heard people say standing on the pegs lowered your cog and I could never figure that out. Thought the theory of TWO was the answer.

I stand corrected.

Weighting the pegs is another bugger to figure. The theory seems to be to weight the outside peg as you corner, but initially weighting a peg seems to pull the bike toward the weighted side. So, I've figured that to initiate the turn I weight the inside peg, then shift to the outside peg once the cornering is underway. This is all secondary to countersteering which is really what changes direction.

As craneguys suggests, it's got to be a combination of things such as the shift in body position and/or arm movement.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Weighting the outside peg comes from Trials. Without resorting to diagrams imagine a bike viewed from behind turning left and leaning to the left. Now imagine the riders feet location. His (or her) right foot is more or less directly on top on the wheels if you draw a vertical line from the contact patch of the rear tyre. His (or her) left foot is inside the tyre not above it. Weighting the right foot whilst turning left will put more weight more directly above on the tyres therefore increasing traction.
Simplistic but the best I can do without pictures.

Edit:
This is not Trials but it's the best Dr Google through at me to illustrate the concept. Which foot would place more weight on the tyres? (BTW from the attitude of the rider which foot do you think is weighted)
 
#20 ·
It's been years since I did dirt but I found that standing on the pegs and let the bike wander around under me was something I got used to.
Sitting on the bike just won't let the bike do what the terrain wants it it do.
I tried to refresh the techniques on a 17 mile stretch of dirt road recently. Even tried squirting around corners using the throttle. Man, am I out of practice. Fun though.
What the pro's do is really amazing.
 
#21 ·
Agree! I think you could fill a page with calcs and still get varying opinions. As far as my experience goes, limited to dirt/gravel/sandy roads, ( very little single track) standing on the pegs places my weight low at that level and this point acts as a fulcrum to my body weight above. The COG of both rider and bike is dramatically lowered. Weighting your feet has varying dynamics depending on the corner and your speed. A speedway rider ( or MXer) has all of his weight on the outside leg/peg and I believe thats where the CoG is as the body is not a fixture on the bike. If the body was instead a tall lump of steel welded and fixed to the pegs the CoG would be different again with different dynamics. All very interesting. The inside leg is way forward for balance. I have done this style a couple of times but it was always accidental and ended in a prang. :yesnod:
 
#22 ·
.
After a recent shot of caffeine, I'm feeling disputatious.

* Centres of Gravity :
When sitting on the bike, with knees/thighs contacting the sides of the bike, then body & bike are pretty much one unit, so their two CofG's combine into one CofG.
Your body CofG is approx at hip level (unless you are touching your toes or doing other weird gymnastics) and the bike's CofG is about halfway between front and rear axles yet about 10 cm higher than that inter-axle line.

Obviously the combined CofG must be somewhere above that 10 cm level ~ and you can easily figure out the approximate position by comparing the relative masses and positioning of body & bike (and their CofG's).
Again : as you stand on the bike, your hip level goes higher, and so the combined CofG must go a bit higher [but I'm guesstimating that the rise is only 5-10 cm for the average rider on a Strom.
Probably no real argument about any of this.

Now, 5-10 cm ain't much . . . as the actress said to the bishop.
So why should the handling be much different?

As Notacop has just said [as by many others before] ~ when standing, the two masses [body; bike] become semi-independent.
The bike can move around more nimbly ~ the stabilizing forces deriving from the front wheel's castor effect are able to work more effectively on the [now somewhat "smaller"] mass of the bike [or, "bike and a bit", if you wish].
Result : good . . . or at least significantly better, for loose/slidey road surfaces.

Now the Strom is only 75% Miss Piggy.
And it all comes about because you have "loosened" your body from the bike.
Very little to do with Centres-of-Gravity or "Weighting the Pegs".
.
 
#24 ·
Exactly. You nailed it.
 
#25 ·
Just did over 100 km of dirt forestry roads and some light duty 4WD tracks. Spent most of the time sitting on the bike which had 38 and 40psi pressures in the tyres. Speeds between walking pace with a bit of clutch feathering through to about 80kph. A couple of young guys on trail bikes were somewhat surprised to have an old guy sitting on a Strom pass them. Technique and experience wins over forum posting any day so as I said to the OP in an earlier post go out and get some training then practice.
 
#27 ·
(more coffee)

The so-called "weighting the inside/outside peg" is somewhat more of a head-scratcher of a term.
Such terms have been used for donkeys' years, by some expert riders, in describing how they ride certain conditions.
But what is happening, what are they actually doing [rather than saying] ?

Try it yourself : stand while riding. Then, without moving your body sideways at all : carefully take all the weight off one foot.

Result : nothing. No change. And the reason being that your Centre-of-Gravity has not moved ~ there has just been a redistribution of static supporting forces in your two hands and other foot.

Yes, you can make the bike respond/turn, through dynamically throwing your hip-region and/or shoulders-region mass to one side of the bike (and probably, at the same time your hands are exerting an unconscious counter steering force too).

All very complex. And it works. And I greatly respect those who can throw & power & slide a bike around an MX or Enduro course . . . and even more do I respect those who can throw Miss Piggy road bikes around on dirt roads.
However, I do wish all that Venerable & Ancient talk about "weighting the pegs" . . . could be replaced by more accurate and less misleading terminology.

*** As you can see in [K1W1's] snapshot in post #19 . . . the rider may or may not be "weighting" one or other of the pegs . . . but he has clearly moved his body CofG well to one side of the bike, in the conventional "overleaning-the-bike" cornering technique.
.
 
#28 ·
By your own admission you don't understand the concept of weighting the pegs and dismiss it. Hmmm.
It's a brave man who dismisses the expert riders. I'd agree with them but I'm not going to get my tits in a tangle over it.

Whatever, I have to take the Budgie for a walk.

Saturn 5
 
#29 ·
(yet more coffee)

Thanks, Saturn-5 . . . though I certainly don't dismiss the riding expertise of expert riders.
I greatly admire it.

But some of the expert riders fall short of the expertise of explaining how they do what they do.

Remember when you were a kid riding a bicycle ?
Probably you soon got very good at it ~ maybe even became a Skid Kid ?
I daresay that you (and I) at that age had little or no understanding of the science of bicycle riding, nor could we explain it well to novices. It was just something you did, and did well.
Countersteering, resultant forces, mass, momentum . . . wozzat ?

The way forward was to practise, and take a few falls . . . practise, and fall, until you got really good.
That was adequate for bicycles . . . but not so much of a good idea for motorcycling.

Riding a motorbike is a level or two above that.
You are pushing the envelope in performance, traction, braking. And danger.

Best to know/understand where the limits are (before you pass over the threshold) so that the learning curve can be tackled as quickly and safely as possible. Otherwise, if a rider doesn't understand the basic science, then he ends up as [worst case] a rear-brake-only user, or suchlike.
Similarly, a rider can best advance his skills if he receives good scientifically-based instruction ~ and clear, well-thought-through terminology.
Fuzzy concepts don't belong, even if they have been around for years.

Take "weighting the inside/outside peg", for instance.
Is it literally a useful and accurate term, or is it actually just a shorthand or code-phrase for a whole group of actions which a rider does (or thinks he does) during cornering ?

That's an okay thing to say, if it's a group of expert riders talking among themselves and knowing what they [sort of] mean by it . . . but it's vastly less use in educating and explaining stuff to other riders who don't speak a da language.
Even worse, it is misleading if it's a phrase which is based on inaccurate concepts [which may . . . or may not . . . be the case with "weighting"].

Look at "Centre-of-Gravity" for example ~ a clearcut term with exact meaning for engineers. But look through this thread, and you will find a number of comments indicating that their posters have forgotten or never grasped, or have confused and overlapped it with other concepts ~ with the result that there's a lot of talk and heat, and only small progress.

* My apologies for all my wind-filled baggage (above) ~ but the topic is too complex to discuss by means of a short paragraph of a post.
And even with all that verbiage, I fear that I have not expressed fully and clearly the context of my humble inquiry about the so-called "weighting".
.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Hehe, well probably not a crappy rider, just inexperienced on dirt, that's not a crime. It’s a completely different set of bike handling skill to road (almost opposite), maybe get an old trail bike to learn on (and fall off) which is a lot less expensive to repair when you do (and you will) slide out on dirt, or just take it easy and slowly build up your experience on the Strom.

The Strom is one of the most road orientated “dual sport” bikes you can ride so it will probably feel “skatey” when offroad to a road rider, but that’s the trade off for the exceptional road manners the Strom has.

I have just spent 5 days with occasional riding of different levels of easy and medium dirt tracks loaded up with a pillion and luggage, this doesn’t give me the usual body weight shifts that solo trail riding will allow, so I just remain seated (locked in by pillion & luggage) and apply more pressure on the pegs (almost lifting my bum) as described in the previous posts, this gives me the “trail feel” on the pegs, one big tip is to relax your top half and your grip on the bars, keep your head up and don’t look at the potholes or you will hit them, instead always look where you want to go & let the front find it's own way (which it will), I think this is the skatey feeling you are referring to, In time this skatey sliding becomes the fun part of dirt riding & the Strom is a very fun bike to ride :)
 
#32 ·
I used to ride dirt bikes, old dirt bikes admitted, but dirt bikes.

On dirt roads the DL is faster and more stable than the bikes I used to ride - 80kph used to be about it, after that it got really scary.

I've seen 130kph on the speedo on the DL - I'll admit, I peeled off 50 of those really quickly :), simply because that's an insane speed given 'shit happens' on dirt roads but it was no worries.

The trick on the DL's on dirt appears to be staying balanced and smooth and steering with the rear of the bike, line the front up reasonably right and on and off the throttle to fine tune the steering - until you 'get it' it's uncomfortable.

Fork brace helps lots, steering damper helps lots on things like deep gravel and deep soft sand, hours in the saddle - priceless.

Put a TKC-80 up front and it's actually an amazing dirt road bike. NOT a dirt bike, doesn't like jumps, doesn't like big lumps, but decent dirt - oh yeah baby.

Pete
 
#35 ·
.
Fester, it's not all you.

I know they say it's [almost] all the rider, and hardly any "the bike".
But you will never convert Miss Piggy into a silk purse.
Just accept her as a cheerful all-rounder with a definite bitumen bias.

You are right, not to restrict yourself from exploring any dirt roads that you happen to come across (provided they're not oozing mud / sand / limestone-ball-bearings). What with all the radars and careless drivers on the main roads, it's a definite pleasure to get away on a slowish ride down those country side-roads.

Riding techniques aside, there is much to be said for fitting a tubeless TKC-80 to the front wheel [as PeteW favours] or maybe a tubeless Mefo Explorer 100/90-19 [which has probably a shade less bitumen grip than the TKC, but is cheaper and longer lasting].
Unless you are a hard charging, hard braking, elbow-scratching on every corner type of rider, then those sorts of dual-purpose tyres will do quite nicely . . . and you will be able to enjoy much more side-road freedom than a Michelin Pilot Road tyre would give you.

* I must criticize you severely for a blunder you made (back in post #30 ?) where you implied some denigration of Dr Karl Kruszelwhatsit.
Whatever you think of his science, you must admit that he consistently shows the safety consciousness of wearing hi-visibility tops.:thumbup:
As I understand it, he has never been hit by a car yet.
.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top