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A bit of light reading...

3K views 23 replies 5 participants last post by  BanditDave 
#1 · (Edited)
#2 ·
It seems that motorcycle deaths are actually decreasing if you examine the first graph, figure 2 on page 6.

This same graph shows the greatest risk increase is for pedestrians/cyclists who would be much safer on the footpath (where they belong) in my opinion :wink2:
 
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#3 ·
It's interesting that there's no differentiation between road and off-road bikes. What about dual-sports - I don't want ABS to be on when riding off-road (even though it currently is for me - I'll get around to fixing that so I can disable it at some stage).

What about rec-reg for trail bikes etc? mandatory on those?

In general I do support ABS for road use, but I don't think it should be mandated for bikes that are also ridden off-road. There's alot of grey area with the potential to pi$$ off alot of riders that I think they should address first.

And lastly, they seem to mention Bosch alot... while I'm sure Bosch's data is factual, I do question the vested interest they would have in making ABS mandatory $$$$$$$... all the way to the bank.
 
#7 ·
As an engineer in the automotive industry, designing components used in ESC and ABS systems, I wholeheartedly agree, and would expand it to all motorcycles with ABS/ESC.

Modern ESC/ABS systems are WAY better than some of the early ones, but even still I think you should have the ability to turn it off on almost every vehicle. There is alot of safety back-ups, and they do tend to turn themselves off if there's any fault, but they're still not 100%.

Obviously for off-road use, of course you need to have a disable switch. I mean on my 2000 4runner the ABS is terrible and will try to kill you (I installed a spoof switch to disable it on the fly). On a motorcycle, any decreased performance could easily be the difference between a crash and not a crash.

ABS/ESC for motorcycles is a lot more nascent than its 4-wheel older brother. Until I am confident that the companies have really gotten a lot of experience in the 2-wheel application, I'd like the option to turn it off.
 
#10 ·
I agree about the convenience of a switch however, if fitted I would suggest it would need to be well concealed.
Should the worst occur and your bike was examined by an insurance assessor you could find your insurance claim invalid.
However, if the ABS fuse was "blown" that could hardly be your fault :wink2:
 
#11 ·
I think that's what the discussion paper is about - not only implementing ABS on all motorcycles above a certain capacity/speed capability, but also allowing switchable ABS for dual sport/adventure type bikes
 
#12 · (Edited)
I see in the discussion paper that "lightweight off road" bikes may have ABS exemption but I don't see the VStrom being in this category.
I also don't see that the decision to disable the safety feature (ABS) is going to be left to the rider. i.e. by providing a switch to disable it if and when you choose.
As I said above, if you deliberately disable a fitted safety system and come to grief, make sure it is not recognised as such by an insurance assessor.
It would be good if I was mistaken :serious: (The missus tells me I have been on a number of occasions but I have no recollection of such events).
 
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#14 ·
I've just had a little troll around a few motorcycle web sites and you are right regarding switchable ABS.
Not wanting to sound too ridiculous but does this mean the rider can choose when to have ABS on/off?
I cannot understand that in our "nanny" state that us humble motorcyclists would be allowed to make decisions for ourselves particularly regarding what is essentially a safety feature.
I'll check with the missus to see if I am correct on this occasion, who knows?
 
#18 ·
I caught up with a Triumph Tiger 800 rider this morning and now understand a little more.

The Triumph comes with a number of riding modes, on-road, off-road, sports mode and one other (I think).

When you first turn the key on the bike is in road mode, the default which includes ABS and traction control.

By operating some switches you can enter different modes to suit your needs.

When you turn off the key the bike reverts to the default mode i.e. road mode which re-enables ABS and traction control.

This makes the Triumph Tiger and other similar up market bikes compliant with our regulations.

HOWEVER, if you choose to add a switch to disable any of the bikes standard design features your bike is no longer compliant and you are vulnerable from an insurance perspective.

I personally am not interested in doing such modifications, however, if I chose to do so, I would use concealed relays to disable such features, these relays would return the bike to standard road mode when the key was turned off.
 
#19 ·
That is correct, Dave, the Ducatis are the same, some of the modes turn off the ABS. That would be nice on the V-Strom, wouldn't it? That link I provided above also has a link to an email address for submissions regarding the topic, it's open until the 26th February, I'm working on mine now.
 
#20 ·
I don't think it has anything to do with an insurance company until they first prove that 'YOU' by disabling the ABS caused the accident and/or a functioning ABS would have prevented the accident.
On the other hand from an ADR perspective, it might be a different story.
Most of us alter/modify our motorcycles from the pre purchase show room 'Standard OEM Condition'
Be it, after market luggage, daytime running lights, exhausts, handle bars/risers, GPS wired/mounts, heated grips and the list goes on.
Point being, who decides what modifications are permissible and which are not.
Any non factory modification could be deemed by an insurance company to compromise the motorcycle and make it unsafe thus null and void the policy.
It would all come down to deep pockets and good barrister.
 
#21 ·
Most of us alter/modify our motorcycles from the pre purchase show room 'Standard OEM Condition'

Do we?? :grin2::grin2:

I can see the authorities "turning a blind eye" to bike modifications like luggage, extra lights and modified exhausts.
Similarly, cars can be retrofitted with tow bars, bull bars and extra lighting with so serious consequence

Your KTM is fitted with an ABS disabling feature which is factory fitted and therefore, quite acceptable.

If you could purchase an ABS disabling device from Suzuki or maybe an aftermarket source I consider this would also be acceptable to the authorities.

To retrofit a VStrom (or any other motorcycle) with a home made ABS disabling feature (one that does not have engineering certification) is a no-no.

The aftermarket item that really surprises me is the throttle lock device, sometimes called a cruise control. How the authorities have not reacted to this item really surprises me.

Anyway, that's my understanding on the topic.
 
#23 ·
If you are riding on bitumen roads and have your rear ABS disabled, would an insurance company look at you unfavourably
You originally were referring to insurance companies denying claims due to the ABS being tampered with, that is what I replied to.
I also said,
On the other hand from an ADR perspective, it might be a different story.
What about retro fitted non factory cruise control or more primitive throttle locks, all have justification by a insurance companies to deny a claim.
Hence my comment,
I don't think it has anything to do with an insurance company until they first prove that 'YOU' by disabling the ABS caused the accident and/or a functioning ABS would have prevented the accident.
Point being, who decides what modifications are permissible and which are not.
Any non factory modification could be deemed by an insurance company to compromise the motorcycle and make it unsafe thus null and void the policy.
It would all come down to deep pockets and good barrister.

Authorities won't turn a blind eye to an exhaust modification if it involves excess noise or a decat of the exhaust, aftermarket or OEM.

Not trying to be argumentative just devils advocate.
 
#24 ·
I think we are largely in agreement Mr A, just looking at the issue from a slightly different point of view. :smile2:
 
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